Legislature(1997 - 1998)
03/11/1997 03:06 PM House HES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 146 - PUPIL COMPETENCY TESTING Number 1603 CHAIRMAN BUNDE announced the next item on the agenda was HB 146, "An Act relating to competency testing requirements for secondary students; and providing for an effective date." He said this is the third time this bill has been heard. Number 1623 DENNIS BOYER, Behavior Consultant, Mat-Su School District, said he works as a liaison between the school district and mental health agencies. Many of the kids he works with are learning disabled, have attention deficit disorder (ADD), are behaviorally disordered, severely emotionally disturbed or kids who are having a really tough time. He was in general support of HB 146, but expressed concerned about the bill's impact on this population of students. Number 1671 MR. BOYER said handicapped students cannot be legally or ethically held to the same standards as non-handicapped students. We can't expect students who are academically handicapped to compete with their peers, anymore than we would expect a child with crippled legs to compete with peers in a foot race. When he read this bill, he imagined how he was going to tell parents that their third grade child, considering the handicaps, would most likely never be able to pass a test and therefore would not be able to receive a high school diploma. Number 1702 MR. BOYER said, from a legal standpoint, saying that no handicapped child will be given a diploma unless the pass the same exit exam as regular kids will provide a legal opportunity for parents and the Office of Civil Rights. Conversely, if we grant waivers to these kids and require a non-handicapped student to pass this exit exam, we may be guilty of reverse discrimination. Number 1726 MR. BOYER recommended that extreme caution be taken to avoid discrimination against the many culturally unique communities in this state. Perhaps our state, more than any other, has a deep cultural divide and any statewide exit exam standards are going to be highly controversial. For many rural students, it is going to be extremely difficult to do well on a standardized test written for the main stream, when many of them have never seen a street light, fire hydrant or an elevator. MR. BOYER said he commercial fished on the Yukon River each summer and often wondered if he moved to Mountain Village, Emmonak or Saint Mary's how he would devise a curriculum that was culturally relevant and would enlist the support of the village elders. Maintaining the heritage of these students, while giving them an accurate vision of what their future should be. He thought it would be a tremendous challenge to devise a test that is culturally relevant to many bush communities, while being equally relevant to urban Alaska. If our exit test is not equally relevant, then it is going to be discriminatory. Number 1780 MR. BOYER commented that he did not know what the standards would be and it is not the committee's job to determine them. In order to be credible, we cannot hold the students to seventh or even tenth grade standards. However if we make the standards above sixth, seventh or eighth grade, many handicapped students will never get a diploma unless they are granted a waiver. A majority of students in this state will pass the exam, because a majority of our students are above the national average. Some of these functionally able students won't pass. He felt that some of them deserve to fail. Number 1813 MR. BOYER referred to one slice of the population of students that are non-handicapped, but will be at risk of injustice. He works with students with an i.q. of approximately 80. These students are good, healthy, honest, moral kids who are working 100 percent to their potential, but because their i.q. matches their achievement, they do not qualify as handicapped. In spite of their best efforts, they cannot and will not achieve more than a sixth to seventh grade level in English, reading and math. He knew that it would break the hearts of those teachers who invest great time and great energy to see that child denied a diploma. He thought it would be a crime to deny this student the opportunities provided by a diploma. This student might not be capable of further academic growth, but may excel in specific areas. There are many areas of intelligence beyond what is proposed in this exit test, they include; music, art, athletics, social skills and salesmanship. If this student does not get a diploma, he might not get that chance to find and pursue his area of strength. He asked the committee to imagine this student's hurt and anger. Despite his best efforts, he is denied access to the post-secondary system. The school district will, justifiably, face a legal challenge. Number 1892 MR. BOYER questioned whether kids like these are going to stay in school. They are bright enough to know that, in spite of their best efforts, any attempt to receive a diploma is futile. If we reject these students, they will drop out and we lose the opportunity to help these students. Higher drop-out rates have followed the use of exit tests in other states. We need to take a close look at the factors behind this issue, if increased drop-outs are the casualties of this exit exam system. If so, we need to prepare alternatives for them. The drop-outs are going to cost us; not only in the loss of revenue as our school population drops, but the downstream cost of corrections for kids who are shut out of our systems. Kids, out of school and on the street, are at a high risk of trouble; drugs, stealing and violence. The cost of incarceration is extremely high. Number 1934 MR. BOYER said the chances for getting public support for this credible bill and for it to succeed are much greater if we plan in advance for the handicapped, the borderline and the drop-outs of this new system that we are proposing. Number 1934 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON asked for clarification that if achievement matches potential, a person cannot be classified as handicapped. Number 1942 MR. BOYER responded that the student probably will not be classified as learning disabled, the student could be classified as ADD is they meet those criteria. There is a possibility that they could be classified as severely emotionally disturbed from a mental health point of view, or other medically impaired. We cannot necessarily get a handicapping condition that will fit each of these children who are borderline. Number 1975 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said he did not follow the logic and asked if not granting a diploma was rejecting a student. Number 1984 MR. BOYER expressed, from his point of view, that if we have a student with an 80 i.q. who is told that if; he comes to school, follows the rules, enters classes, studies this material and receives at least D grades, accumulates 21 credits, then he will graduate with a diploma. With this legislation another criteria is added; you must pass a test. This test, if it is going to be credible, must at least expect kids to function in English, math and reading at a ninth grade level, which will be beyond the ability of this 80 i.q. student, regardless of how hard this student tries. He might have an area of specialty such as reading without comprehension, it may be math without the ability to write. Number 2027 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked if he had a suggestion for how to address the issue of the impaired student, such as lowering the expected level of expectation or not having this level of expectation in order to receive a different type of high school diploma. He asked if this would further segregate those students from the rest. Number 2059 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN referred to personal examples of people he had worked with who had lower i.q. levels with whom he had a good working relationship and respect for what they could do. Number 2095 MR. BOYER knew that we could grant diplomas to severely handicapped children by putting an asterisk on the grades, which shows that it is a special class. However, it is the same diploma. There are students out there who should take this test and if they fail they need to be held accountable. He said this test will wake parents up to what their children need to know. He questioned how to make accommodations for the legitimately handicapped and how to hold the academically able student accountable. He agreed to write a letter in the next few days to the committee with any suggestions he had. Number 2149 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said he is approaching this exam from another position. While he recognized the need to be sensitive to the needs of the handicapped and the limited capable kids, he felt it was, to a degree, insensitive to give them a diploma that has the same status as the one given to the valedictorian. Consequently, he thought it was fair that the high school diploma should represent something of significance to a future employer or college. It should mean that this person has met certain standards. He asked if it would not meet the purpose to have a certificate of attendance for kids, having the ability to highlight the positive traits that they have. If they have an avocation in music, the certificate of attendance could state that this person has been diligent in their classes all the way through the system with high points here. Number 2208 MR. BOYER said part of this could be taken care of with a legitimate grading system. Unfortunately, we have inflated grades at times. If we have a student that has an A in math and an A in music and a D in English, then vocational college recruiters or any other one should have the responsibility of looking at the diploma and the grades. The person looking at the transcript can note that there is an asterisk on the grades with a note referring to the fact that this was a resource class. If an employer is responsible at all, he should know what that means. He did not think that the school district, at the high school level for children under the age of 18, should be doing the weeding out process. We ought to do everything that we can to give them a legitimate diploma that does not shut them out of anything, while holding them accountable through a grading system and through asterisk grades for those who are handicapped. With no doors being shut, let those students make the applications to the college or the trade school. Then as a school we would have told those students the truth; make good grades, show good attendance, join activities and get letters of reference. Rather than us, as a district, saying you're washed out and you get a certificate of attendance instead of a diploma. Number 2280 CHAIRMAN BUNDE said as a legislator, you have to make some decisions that will benefit the most, while hurting the least. He questioned what a high school diploma should mean. The business community and, recently, the university system are frustrated that they are getting high school students who do not function at a high school level, they are functionally illiterate. He asked if the student with the 80 i.q. should get the high school diploma, if the student with the 50 i.q. should get one as well. MR. BOYER wished he had those answers. CHAIRMAN BUNDE commented that the student with the 50 i.q. has an impact on the student with the 120 i.q. if they both receive a high school diploma. MR. BOYER said any student that is going to college has to pass the SAT exams. CHAIRMAN BUNDE offered that this is not the case for the University of Alaska. MR. BOYER suggested raising the standards of entry. TAPE 97-17, SIDE B Number 0000 CHAIRMAN BUNDE said 22 or 23 other states have exit exams, maybe we have to look at what they've done. Perhaps there will be a high school diploma, a regent's diploma, an honor's diploma or whatever, but at some point we are also going to have a certificate of attendance. He said the question is, how do we do the best for the most. He referred to a survey and stated that 90 percent of people in his district are saying they want certification tests for teachers and a high school achievement test. Those people want some meaning for the diploma and feel that children will live up to the standards as well as living down to lower standards. We need to challenge the students that are asleep during the class. Number 148 MR. BOYER said those kids asleep in class are not being held accountable. He added that there is no greater respect for a handicapped child than to tell them, that in spite of your handicap, we know you can do this, we expect it of you and if you don't do it, you will be washed out because you are no different than the rest of us. Number 0223 NANCY BUELL, Ed. D., Director, Teaching and Learning Support, Department of Education (DOE), was next to testify. It was her understanding that at the last hearing of HB 146, the DOE was asked to make some comments on an implementation timeline. She referred to a handout, located in the committee file, titled, "Possible Implementation Table for Exit Examination." A timeline was projected out for a draft test in reading, writing and mathematics following the committee request that this be done next year with implementation of the test in 2001. DR. BUELL explained, based upon the experience of other states, the DOE would suggest a phase in period where you begin testing at a lower grade. This allows for a system of remediation, which seems to be required in order for the test to withstand a legal challenge, to be in place. If you choose to start that remediation at the ninth grade, the experience in other states would indicate that the test implementation would begin a year past the date the committee recommended. The test would begin by 1999 or 2000. It would be begin as an exit test for that class. Number 0348 CHAIRMAN BUNDE clarified that the DOE would begin preparing people to take the test, but not... Number 0359 DR. BUELL recommended that it be given, so that the system of remediation could be in place. If you don't give the exam, then there can be no remediation. If there is no remediation, then chances are it would not pass a legal challenge. Number 0371 CHAIRMAN BUNDE verified that it would not impact their high school diploma. Number 0385 DR. BUELL said the idea here is that ninth graders would take the exam and some of them would pass. If what occurs is similar to what happens in other states, then 40 percent would pass with more passing it in the tenth grade, a number more passing it in the eleventh grade and a few left by twelfth grade who need to pass the exam. Hopefully those students would pass the exam with a system of remediation between ninth and twelfth grade. Number 0416 CHAIRMAN BUNDE explained his conception of the exit exam; in the twelfth grade, because students in twelfth grade should be expected to do things that students in ninth grade are not expected to do, there would be an exit exam. He questioned testing ninth graders with the same exam. Number 0432 DR. BUELL believed that the committee had been provided information, including extensive legal information, by DOE. Based upon the experience of other states, states do not start this testing in the twelfth grade because one of requirements to help withstand legal challenges to this exam, is that there is a system of remediation in place for students who do not pass it. This system of remediation would not be possible if students took the exam in the twelfth grade. CHAIRMAN BUNDE stated that a student who passed the exam in the ninth grade would not have to take it again. He suggested that we are requesting a ninth grade ability for our high school graduates. Number 0469 DR. BUELL said, no, this might be one of a number of pieces which might be considered essential for graduation. This is not a diploma test, this is one of the things a student has to do in order to graduate. She asked if this assumption was correct. Number 0488 CHAIRMAN BUNDE said he was looking at a competency test that high school seniors would take. It might be that the committee would decide that the best we can hope for is functional literacy at a ninth grade level for our seniors. Number 0505 DR. BUELL suggested that there might be semantic difficulty. She said the committee would intend for the student to take and pass high school classes. This is also what she is saying; that the minimum competency test could be passed by a ninth grader, but in order to graduate they would have to pass their high school classes. This is what is done in other states. Number 0530 CHAIRMAN BUNDE said we come back to the issue that the minimum competency level we expect of our high school seniors is a ninth grade literacy level. Number 0536 DR. BUELL said this did not mean that all of our ninth graders are on the ninth grade level. Number 0548 CHAIRMAN BUNDE understood this to be the case. He reminded her that HB 146 included a social science and science section in the exit exam. Number 0556 DR. BUELL understood this. The department did not recommend, for a number of reasons, that we test science and social science on an exit test. There are a couple of states which do this, who have invested millions of dollars in trying to make their test something which can past muster. The DOE has found, in terms of developing this kind of test, that there is not national agreement on what would constitute appropriate standards in this area. For instance, the national standards in those areas, especially in social studies, have been sent back three times and the U.S. Congress has refused to fund the latest rendition of the standards because they do not feel they are appropriate. It is hard to develop a test that everyone believes is appropriate for graduation if we don't have common agreement on the standards. Further, it is very difficult to develop a test where a student performs the same from time to time, which is the reliability needed in order for the test to stand up in court. Number 0623 DR. BUELL said most of the science and social studies components, on this scale, test the ability to read material in science and social studies as opposed to true science and social studies knowledge or the application of that knowledge. For instance, they would be reading about science as opposed to being able to perform in science. There has been, amongst the assessment community nationwide, a great deal of energy in this area lately because a lot of states are interested in having all their standards tested. The technical validity of those tests is not good yet. She referred to reports that she would be glad to share with the committee. These tests are far from being economically feasible. The state could obtain tests in reading, writing and mathematics economically. Number 0675 CHAIRMAN BUNDE said, on this point, social science is a large block of knowledge and asked if we were to talk about history, U.S. history or U.S. and Alaska history would it seem more achievable. Number 0692 DR. BUELL answered that one state was in the process of developing a history test. This state could be contacted to find out the costs associated with it and how difficult it's been. We have standards in that area, obviously we think students should know and be able to do things in that area. We're talking about a large scale state level test as opposed to the district being able to test the individual at the local level where they're observing the student every day. There are multiple indicators which test knowledge including; the teacher knowing what has been taught and testing that particular knowledge. Number 0725 DR. BUELL clarified that DOE does not resist the idea of an exit test in any way. They have put a great deal of time and energy into trying to establish content standards for students. They've tried to do that in a way that is appropriate for Alaska. Being a local control state, Alaska has taken a bashing, nationally, for not having state adopted standards, for not having state mandated assessments in all areas. Alaska always seems to be at the bottom of the list and it is always because we have voluntary standards. This is part of what we've done as a state and has resulted, over time, in a real limited capacity for the state to mandate anything. We need to start mandating things if we are going to require that certain things be met. We need to mandate things a lot farther down the line. DR. BUELL commented that a state which has always had a statewide curriculum, or a state like California which even mandates its textbook adoption and what has to be done in inservice classes, it is much easier for those states to declare what the curriculum is and this is what we're going to test. A testing company can make the test based on this curriculum, even then the state spent several million dollars creating this test. There is no significant difference between developing a test for 20,000 students and developing a test for 2 million kids. It is a similar technical process, virtually identical. We can learn from what has happened in other states. DR. BUELL referred back to the timeline she presented and said it is the timeline which Washington and several other states have taken. As this becomes a bigger and bigger issue nationally, as people are looking at standards and whether or not students can achieve standards, the whole interest in state level testing has been substantially increased, as well as the litigation associated with this issue. She hoped the committee knew that DOE is not opposed in concept, but is trying to offer information based upon what they have gathered from other states. Number 0850 CHAIRMAN BUNDE explained that some of the frustration he has heard is about walking the line between local control and the voluntary standards. As well as the frustration about the competence level of graduating seniors. Number 0882 CHAIRMAN BUNDE said HB 147 is an attempt to move from voluntary standards to some compliance level which maintains as much local control as possible. He suggested that those areas which could use the standards the most will probably be the ones least likely to use voluntary standards. Number 0902 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked if the standards were based on the required courses in school. He referred to elective courses and questioned the need to test those subjects. He asked if we are testing ninth graders, if we are testing those required ninth grade courses. Number 0983 DR. BUELL said his comments reminded her of the bell curve which is where we get the whole concept of a ninth grade level versus whatever other grade level. The curve is based on an adequate sample, the majority of people who are this age, in this grade, and who many will do this well. It is quite arbitrary. One of the things that has happened in a lot of states is the desire to say that all students better get up to certain levels, it is not good enough that 50 percent of them get up to that level. So, rather than saying a ninth grade level, they say here is the standard that everybody needs to meet. If everybody doesn't meet it, then they don't get proficient. Number 1029 DR. BUELL referred to his concern that ninth grade is the best that we would expect. If you look at the bell curve, you can see that some ninth graders are reading at the fourteenth, fifteenth and sixteenth grade levels. The bell curve would tell us that in a normal population, perhaps 2 or 3 percent are out there at the end. Then there are 2 or 3 percent that aren't even on the chart, they are way down on the other end. A bunch are probably at the eleventh or twelfth grade level. By the time those students get to high school they never score at the "ninth grade level" on those standardized tests. Right in the middle, the big bunch, are the group that determine the level. She did not feel this system was good enough for standards. In establishing a cut off score you have to figure out what we want a high school student, who exits, to know and be able to do and then set a level of expectation there. This is what they are hoping to do with the establishment of standards and what other states have tried to do as well. Number 1084 DR. BUELL commented that in some other states, nobody passes the first year. This happened in Kentucky and Connecticut, but because those states had a phase-in, they were able to tell the teachers and kids what needed to be done, tell the parents that this is what your kids are going to need to know and in a short time an increasing number of students began to pass the test. If you don't know what the standards are, it's a crap shoot. You might pass, you might not. If you know what the standards are, you clearly know what you need to know, then the ninth grade level becomes irrelevant and the standards are the important thing. Number 1110 CHAIRMAN BUNDE noted that most newspapers and instructions are written at the eighth grade level, so perhaps he shouldn't have felt so challenged by the ninth grade level. He referred to the carrot and stick approach and said Representative Dyson would talk about managing outcomes, but that there are students in the eleventh grade now, who have to do very little in school because they have worked ahead and received their credits. He is concerned that someone in the ninth grade, who has passed their exam, would coast for the next three years or if they would remain motivated. He reiterated that he is concerned about the message that might be sent if they take and pass the test early on. Number 1168 DR. BUELL said there will probably be some students who could pass this exit exam without going to school. She added that the family is very important. Number 1200 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked what is it that constitutes a ninth grade level of math. He vaguely recalled that when he entered high school, there was some kind of a test and you were either placed in algebra or general math. He asked if the exam would be on algebra or general math. Number 1239 DR. BUELL answered the test would include a combination of algebra and general math. She cited an example where students who were taking calculus and differential equations, taking college courses, but couldn't pass the math competency exam and had to take a special class on how to figure out how to do things at that level. The very highly qualified student has difficulty with dichotomous choices, they see too many options. Other states have also found this to be the case. Number 1271 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER cited his own difficulty with a math exam for his entrance exam into NorthWestern University, because it had been so long since he had performed "so called" simpler math problems. Number 1290 DR. BUELL stated you would not want to assume that just because we would give the test to ninth graders first that the test would be at the ninth grade level, DOE would not recommend this. The DOE would recommend that we begin seeing how many people pass it and who was going to need remediation prior to the time when they exit high school. The exam probably ought to be based on what we expect students to do when they graduate. Some of them will be able to do that part of it early on and other states have found, within a population of students, some of them can do it. It doesn't mean that those students drop out of school. The population that passes the test is not the population that drops out of school in other states. The population that doesn't pass is the population that drops out in other states. You have to set up a program to bolster those students who have poor skills and give them confidence. This is true, as well, for able students who fail the test because of poor test taking skills or the kind of thing that Representative Porter mentioned. Number 1343 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN cited a personal example about strengths and weaknesses in different academic areas. Number 1381 CHAIRMAN BUNDE mentioned that what was being discussed was core curriculum and core abilities, what we expect of our average citizen. Our newspapers are written at an eighth grade level. He did not expect that we would have a test that would begin to explore the intensified areas, whether they be science or any other area. He asked what a high school diploma should mean and stated that Dr. Buell raised a whole new possibility in the area of testing. He had an idea that at the end of high school, there would be this level of expectation on which students would be tested. Number 1447 DR. BUELL said she would be happy to get information from other states and legislatures that have coped with this issue. Other legislatures have set exit tests, these exit tests are not just implemented by state departments of education. In the last ten years, especially during the past five years, when we look at other states, they're beginning to get reports about their experiences. She referred to a report from Mississippi where they identified the things needed to be in place before they imposed a test like this. The most important thing seems to be, from her personal perspective, is that we make sure that we come up with a legally defensible and fair system. Because of this issue, we can't ignore a system of remediation. Number 1462 CHAIRMAN BUNDE added that this remediation should be happening now. Schools probably aren't doing it because they don't realize it needs to be done, because parents aren't insisting on it or because students aren't being as responsible as they ought to be. CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked if she could provide information on testing for history; state or U.S. history or whatever they have there. Number 1490 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN cited an example where the set level is 70 percent. He asked if someone could get a 65 percentile in one area, a 90 percentile in another area, et cetera and then asked if that student would pass, based on an average figure for those separate components of the exam. DR. BUELL said a decision would have to be made. She knew of other states that averaged the scores out and she would include this in the information she sent to the committee. Number 1524 CHAIRMAN BUNDE cited an example where a ninth grader passes the reading portion and is not able to pass the other components. He asked if that student would retake the whole test in tenth grade or just the portions they did not pass. He also asked if they are taking the same test over and over again. He mentioned that some tests might be seen as more difficult than others. DR. BUELL said this was definitely a factor. Number 1560 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER verified that, with repetitive testing, separate tests would be needed. CHAIRMAN BUNDE said he assumed that to be the case. DR. BUELL said this is why you could not test every three months, you couldn't afford it. Number 1580 REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN clarified that other states are testing competency at early ages and asked what kind of tests were being done, and at what grade levels. He understood that the California Achievement Test (CAT) was being administered now. He asked if that could be perceived as a competency test. Number 1622 DR. BUELL said the CAT was not designed to be a competency test, it was designed to give information about student performance relative to the objectives for which the test is done. The concept of competency needs to be established by someone. The testing company for the CAT, C.T.B. McGraw Hill has told DOE that they would not support the use of that test as a competency test. Part of the reason why it could not be used is that the CAT compares students, it is normative. It is your performance compared to the students on whom the test was originally tested, not against a specific level of expectation. For instance, if everyone did very poorly you could miss one and be in the 70 percentile or you could miss 12 and be in the 99 percentile because it is all relative to the original population. DR. BUELL said for a competency test, you must establish what the competency is, what the performance is that's acceptable and measure everyone against the same standard. The type of test which is based on normative behavior would not function as a competency test. Unless someone actually went through the test and everyone agreed that if everyone could answer question 14, then this question could be placed on a competency test. Number 1689 REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN said if our intent was to produce a knowledgeable and competent citizen, then the earlier that we are able to measure their level the more likely we could step in with remediation. He asked what the earliest year should be to administer a competency test. He suggested it might be fourth grade, the same year the CAT is administered. Number 1725 DR. BUELL said he was talking about her opinion now. Based on what she has seen across the United States, the responsible systems for this kind of thing start early and they do what is called benchmarking. They start with what they expect students to be able to do and then they work back from that and figure out where they expect students to be by here and by here. In really comprehensive systems this begins by the end of primary school where they look at whether students can do the basic mechanics of reading by the end of third grade. It is not an accident that this particular grade is one of the President's benchmark years, where he says everyone should read by fourth grade. It is pretty well established that if you don't have, by the time you go into fourth grade, the basic mechanics of reading where you transfer from looking at reading to reading in content areas then the chances are good that you will never catch up. DR. BUELL mentioned other studies which indicate that if certain things aren't in place when a child enters kindergarten, they may never catch up. This principle is what Head Start is based on. There have been a lot of studies done on this issue. Longitudinal studies of Head Start are 20 years old now and show that fewer Head Start students are in the correctional system, fewer drop out, fewer have social problems in high school and so on and so forth. The earlier you intervene and have expectations and provide support, it is pretty well established that there is a greater chance that the student will make it all the way through the system. DR. BUELL said this means intervening at the family level, if you can, because families are so important. There is no other single factor that would be a better predictor of whether a student would survive this test then determining the educational support coming from the family. Number 1808 REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN cited her use of benchmarks by responsible systems. If the intent is to create a competent citizenry and we wanted to apply one of these responsible systems here in Alaska, using benchmarks to allow for remediation, where would those benchmarks be located. Number 1860 DR. BUELL said she was not the right person to answer this question because she did not feel that learners queue up at those levels. Our system is based on students queuing up at those levels. She believed that if we have standards for children, they will meet them at progressively earlier and earlier ages. To say this is the level of expectation here, there will be a lot of kids who won't reach it, and a lot of kids who will have reached it earlier. Parents know that one child will read by this age and another will read at another age. Children are not all at the same place at fourth grade, eighth grade or anywhere else, so establishing a benchmark is complex. It makes more sense, from her point of view, to establish a benchmark based on the standards; how many kids can reach this first benchmark, when they reach the first benchmark where the second benchmark should be so that they can work towards that goal. This is what standards based education is all about. DR. BUELL said we test, most, at the fourth, eighth and eleventh grades. It has become a matter of convention. She was not convinced that this phenomena was necessarily supported by any particular research evidence which says those are watershed years, in fact there is some evidence to the contrary. Number 1928 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN discussed the variance in i.q. tests, with margins on either side of the score. He then mentioned people who have difficulties taking tests, people being sick, angry or having emotions that make it difficult to take tests. He asked if you could measure a person's competency on any given test. Number 1957 DR. BUELL answered that this is how a standardized test is designed. It is designed to throw out questions where a student does not perform reliably over time. There is a certain element of the population that will be highly variable no matter what, the top and bottom of the bell curve of any norming group. She restated the question; will there be some students who will perform very differently from test to test and answered, yes. Will there be some students who can pass at one time and not pass it the next year? The answer would be yes, there would be some students who would perform that way. Will there be some students that will be competent and can't pass at this time, but could pass it the next time? The answer would be yes. All of those variables will exist. Number 1997 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked if external forces would affect the perception of a student's competency, especially those students who are borderline. Number 2015 DR. BUELL said this is why science and social studies are pulled out as separate scores on a standardized test, because it takes more repetitions or it is harder to get a consistent behavior on that particular test. For writing, you can develop a pretty reliable test. In other words, a student is going to perform the same no matter how many times they take the test which allows the lumping together for a composite score. There is a reason why a child's scores for a standardized multiple choice test have scores that are off by themselves such as spelling, social studies, science and there are scores that can be lumped together in a composite because they have higher reliability, because they don't seem to be influenced by other factors. That is one of the indicators, there are other reasons as well. Number 2047 CHAIRMAN BUNDE said people would have the opportunity to take the test as ninth graders, tenth graders, eleventh graders, twelfth graders and as HB 146 is written, for three years after that. He had empathy for those who suffer test anxiety, but at some point how does test anxiety differ from filling out a job application or a college application. He reiterated the question of what does this high school diploma mean. Number 2089 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said it has been thrown out that there are some people who can take tests and some who can't. As a result it has been said that tests aren't really valid because the same two people would perform differently under certain circumstances. He asked if this notion has been substantiated. Number 2103 DR. BUELL answered that there are always going to be some individuals who can, without substantive knowledge, sit down to a test that is multiple choice and pass. The Princeton Institute will charge you $500 to teach you how to be dull for the sake of your future and raise your SAT scores by 50 points. They are teaching you to test wisely. That A is the most common answer, when it is a dichotomous choice do not take more than 15 seconds, take your first choice without thinking through the problem. If schooling is teaching you to consider your math carefully, to show your answer, to visualize while the average amount of time per question is 16 seconds, then the test score is going to be better for the student who doesn't do those things. There are students at every age who take tests well and they may never know the content. This is the reason why you would not want a simple test, but a system where this could not happen such as having a writing assessment. This is why the SAT and other major tests have added writing samples. Number 2183 CHAIRMAN BUNDE understood this could happen on multiple choice tests, but the exit exam he is referring to is mathematics, reading and writing. Number 2188 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER presented a scenario where a person with test anxiety, who knew the knowledge took the exam and did not pass. Number 2203 DR. BUELL said this is well documented phenomenon in the assessment literature. She referred to two people who got up to leave the qualifying examinations at the end of the doctoral program because they were so nervous. They obviously knew the material, they were getting A grades, did the papers, but they could not take that test without folding because they are so nervous. She observed children, when she was teaching, who could not take tests. The brain, when it is in threat mode, shuts down to a certain level. If you have had a very bad experience, it is something that can sit with your whole life. She questioned how many people would be affected by this anxiety. TAPE 97-18, SIDE A Number 0000 CHAIRMAN BUNDE explained that testing is not unusual for a student from first grade on, this would just be one more test in a series of tests that kids have to take. Now, as this exit exam is conceived, they have four years of high school to attempt this test, plus an additional three years after school. There will always be some students on the edge of things that will be challenged by this sort of a test. Mr. Boyer mentioned some of these students. We need to be aware that school districts and teachers will teach the test, to make sure that students know the test. If this happens then we will have literate students. He had hopes that we would have Lake Wobegone children, all of them above average. CHAIRMAN BUNDE addressed Dr. Buell and said she had given the committee a great deal to think about. He did not feel comfortable to move the bill and said it would be scheduled Tuesday, March 18, 1997. He said any discussions should relate to the committee substitute.
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